Turning IT Frustrations to Freedom: A Case Study with RIA Workspace – RIA Tech Talk Episode #13

Todd W. Darroca

Hello, hello and welcome to the RIA Tech Talk podcast, brought to you by RIA Workspace. I’m Todd Darroca, and of course, always with me is David Kakish. And together we are on a mission to simplify the complex world of technology for RIAs just like yours. In the podcast, we’ll be your tech guides breaking down those often confusing tech topics into plain and practical terms. And so we hope you join us, subscribe, follow us, all that good stuff for each episode as we dive into the latest tech trends, share our expert insights and help you navigate the ever-changing world of our IA technology. David, David. David, good to see you again. Glad we’re here today. It sounds like today our listener may need to take out a notebook or a laptop or an iPad and take some notes. We have a case study today, is that right?

David Kakish

Sounds good, yes. Hey, Todd, it’s always mesmerizing listening to you and your DJ or radio voice, so. I’m always me mesmerized when you do the intro. It’s a lot of fun. Yes, we are doing a case study today. It’s turning it frustrations into freedom. This is a 13 person RIA and it’s very typical of what many RIAs out there, how they’re living and how they’re doing things when it comes to IT and IT compliance and cybersecurity. We’ll keep the company name confidential because there’s just out of respect for this client. But yeah, they had some major, major challenges and frustrations and didn’t know where to turn or what to do or even know that, oh wow, this could be so much better. It’s night and day and yeah, I’m happy to talk about that and how this client overcame those challenges. And then I think you can take this info and do it yourself or you can call us. We’re happy to help. But key at the end, I’m going to share with you the two most important questions you’re going to want to ask when you hire a new IT provider. So stay on until the end. This is my way to keep you on until the end.

Todd W. Darroca

We don’t have big gifts people, but we do have a secret answer to give you at the end.

David Kakish

Yeah, we’ll reveal the secret at the end here in 15 minutes or so.

Todd W. Darroca

And so as David goes through the case study today, it’s a really good media one. We’ve got several resources that we’re going to stick in the podcast notes, so if you’re whatever podcast network you’re on, you’ll see those notes in the description and we’ll make sure this is also online@raworkspace.com and you’ll search for our podcast and we’ll have these links in there. So good things to download, take notes on. But hey, let’s go ahead and jump right in the case study, David, and we’re starting with Mary and tell us about Mary and what you saw.

David Kakish

Mary is a real, but that is a fictitious name. I just want to put that out there. We want to protect this client. So they’re based out of Dallas. They’ve got four offices. These are shared office spaces. I can’t remember if it was Regis or WeWork, but one of these places. So it was Dallas, Denver, San Diego, and Minneapolis 13 employees. Mary was the director of operations, or she still is, or at least she was supposed to be the director of operations and she became an in-house company IT guy.

Todd W. Darroca

That goes under the list of other tasks in a job description or marrying.

David Kakish

Exactly, exactly. So kind of typical and the biggest, biggest challenge is the IT provider or the MSSP she was working with did not focus on RIAs and they just became terrible. So when they first started working with them, they worked good, they had a really good support person that they can go to. And then as the company changed and that one person left, it just became a total nightmare and she was so spending so much time on being tech support for her internal team and then managing that IT provider and we’re joking, we’re saying she was the director of operations and she ended up spending so much of that time on just it, and it became really, really, really frustrating for her. So that’s probably, if I were to say what’s the main thing, that was the main thing that was going on there. But there were other challenges and other pain points, but that was one that was carrying the most weight on her shoulders.

Todd W. Darroca

How common is that, David? For all good intensive purposes, these IT providers hop into a company that has an RIA and then they just get overwhelmed once they start getting into it. They’ve never dealt with that type of volume or type of business. How often do you see that?

David Kakish

Actually a lot. And the reason is it’s not so much that type of volume because it’s not like RIAs have a lot of requests and volume and stuff like that. It is that type of business. And what I mean by that is, okay, this company 13 employees, their requirements for cybersecurity and IT compliance isn’t like that business with 13 employees across the street, their requirements are much, much, much bigger. So if you think about an enterprise business or a big business, they have hundreds or even thousands of employees. You as an RIA with five employees, 1330 employees, you have the same requirements as that really big enterprise when it comes to cybersecurity and IT compliance. And just a lot of times that IT provider becomes overwhelmed because you’re talking about enterprise security and they’re used to providing what I would call smaller mid-size business security, and they just don’t bridge the gap. And it’s not that for that IT provider securities is not important. They just don’t realize it’s exponentially more important for that, for your RIA.

Todd W. Darroca

Right, right. Alright, so let’s dive into the challenge, the challenges and pain points that she was talking to you about or that you discovered when you sat down with Mary.

David Kakish

Yeah, so like I said, she was spending so much time on it. She was doing the tech support, she was managing the IT provider. It became for her, it was almost like two thirds of her time. This is crazy. I am spending two thirds of my time on this. And then she just had that discussion with the owner and said, Hey, look, here’s going on. And so that was the big part of it, but why is that, right? So the IT provider that she was working with did not understand the RIA vertical, the SEC requirements. There was no proactive advice, there was no roadmap or anything like that. Again, good techs, good people, but that’s kind of what happened. And then I think they were with that company for quite a while because they had a good primary person and then that primary person left and they’re like, all right, who’s supporting us? Who were you working with? And it was just chaos. So she didn’t have an assigned team, just like anybody would help. And then it’s almost like I call in and I would start from zero with every new rep that’s answering the phone to try to help it. So

Todd W. Darroca

Yeah, that’s terrible. Yeah, I hate to over and over and over and over and over again telling you the problems or the goals.

David Kakish

Yep, exactly. Yeah, and it gets really frustrating. There were some other things that she also wanted. She’s like, Hey, listen, it would be really nice for us to have a single sign on for our web-based application. So if you think about a typical RIA, they’re using anywhere your RIA is using anywhere, let’s just say from five to 10 web-based applications, think Wealth box e-money Orion, things like that. It would be really nice for employees to be productive where they can come in and they can see a dashboard and access these web-based applications, but also more security like the one derived in SharePoint sync issues. It was a mess. It was terrible. It was terrible. She would go to ’em, they would fix it, it would happen again and stuff like that that IT provider was not managing her Microsoft licenses. She was overwhelmed. She’s like, what are all these licenses?

Probably the other thing that was very visible was the employee onboarding and offboarding. And by the way, I hear this one a lot. It is a nightmare. So you hire a new employee, it takes hours, days, and sometimes weeks. I kid you not weeks to set up a new employee with all the tech. And the problem is it’s painful for her. It’s so embarrassing. We just hired Todd to work at our RIA and when the tech isn’t set up, it is a reflection of our company as an RIA. And so they were kind of embarrassed. They’re like, man, we need to recruit and higher quality people. We’re not going to bring ’em in and all the tech is not working. And might, oh yeah, your computer is set up, but I can’t email. And just different things like that. And then the big part of that also is the offboarding.

When they let go of an employee, they didn’t have the confidence that that person was completely locked out of the systems. So they had some cybersecurity and IT compliance concerns and just did not have faith in that. And then what is that? I think Bill Gates has a book called The Speed of Trust. You trust the other person or the other company, just business happens faster. And when you don’t have that trust, it just evaporates really, really, really fast. So anyways, I went through a slew of things. I know that this is sort of all with this one client, but it’s not uncommon. Most I was going to

Todd W. Darroca

Ask you, is this typical, is Mary asking for the moon here or is this kind of the basic fundamental stuff or just basic stuff that you hear day in and day out?

David Kakish

No, Mary’s not asking for the moon for us, and I’ll talk about what we did and how she works today so the listener can have a better understanding of that. But what’s somewhat not typical in Mary’s situation, I mentioned seven or nine things. They have the seven or nine things going. Most other RIAs that want to make the change, they have two or three things going on. They’re like, all right, we got to find a partner because of that. But in this case, that’s why it’s a great case study because it’s like, hang on, it’s the nine things that are happening and all nine things were happening most of the time. Again, like I said, there’s two or three things that are just consistently happening at that RIA saying, Hey, I want to go ahead and I want to find an IT provider because of that. Right.

Todd W. Darroca

So what did you guys do? Let’s tackle it kind of bit by bit here. So one of the first things that she was doing that was she didn’t like doing was spending so much time on the IT side of things, doing tech support, managing MSP. So what did you guys do to give her that time back?

David Kakish

Yeah, absolutely. So I would say our biggest success, the biggest success and what she loves was that she was completely freed up. And when you think about technology in it, I jokingly tell people, it’s kind of like at cybersecurity, it’s kind of like air. You’re breathing and as long as you’re breathing, everything is okay, but then the second you can’t breathe, two minutes, you’re dead. And it’s the same thing with technology. If it’s working, life is fantastic, but if you’re having email issues and your emails are not going through or whatever, you can’t work. You can’t be productive. And it just happens. And so the problem happens is with the old provider, it doesn’t get fixed the first time and then she follows up and then she has to manage them and it’s like, oh my goodness. And so she became part-time tech support. She was telling me this, it’s like it’s a lot faster for me to solve it rather than to call them to solve the problem.

Todd W. Darroca

She literally took her out of the equation. You kind of lifted her up and said, Hey look, my team’s got you. Don’t

David Kakish

Worry about that because when things are working well, you don’t have to manage that partner. What happens is, alright, let’s have weekly meetings to talk about the service tickets. What’s going, why are you having weekly meetings? You’d rather not have those, right? Let’s have quarterly technology for your reviews, or let’s have strategic meetings, not like, Hey, what fires are we putting out? Those should just be put out and you’re not dealing with any of that right there. So that was probably the big thing. She loves it because she’s freed up. She’s not spending two thirds of her time on IT and tech support. And at the same time, she’s not spending all this time managing and following up with us because these things just, they’re done

Todd W. Darroca

And you take care of all the compliance issues, all that stuff. That’s all, again, along with the tech part, the compliance and regulatory stuff.

David Kakish

I would just add the IT compliance, right? I’m careful to say that. Yeah, yeah. The IT compliance. Exactly. And then some of the other things that we did during the onboarding process that she just absolutely loved. So during the onboarding process, the first 30 days of working together, we set them up, we set her up and her team with web single sign-on for all the web-based applications. So now the entire team, they don’t need to manually log into redtail.com with their own username and password and Salesforce and e-money and Orion and so on. Now they come in, they open up their browser and it’s right there. It’s a dashboard. And actually it makes them look really good because it feels like they’re providing a dashboard for their own employees where they can access all these web-based applications. And then I hear this a lot, and this, if you’re working in SharePoint and OneDrive, you probably have a lot of sync issues.

It happens all the time and just clients come to us and we just make those things disappear. And the problem is it’s not like if it’s not set up right or if you don’t know if somebody you’re working with doesn’t understand the high level of this, you’re constantly going to have these issues and our clients just don’t have those. The other thing that she absolutely loves, Mary loves that she has an assigned team. She’s working with the same team members on a regular basis. So we’ve got 20 team members, but she’s not randomly assigned. She doesn’t talk to Todd one day. David the other day, Bob Scott, she’s talking to the same team members on a regular basis, and that’s great for her. It’s great for us. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel on every single phone call. And by the way, that’s a big complaint with a lot of people that are reaching out to us.

Todd W. Darroca

Yeah, well that’s nice. I mean, again, if they have a problem, Mary doesn’t have to re-explain something. The two team members are say, oh yeah, Mary, yeah, we got you. Let’s dive into that. That’s good.

David Kakish

Back to the, then there’s comradery. They know each other, right? It’s like a partner relationship. It’s not like one 800 no help.

Todd W. Darroca

And then for the single sign on, I want to go back to that real fast with single sign on, this also helps with the offboarding of employees, right? Because now there is kind of a guarantee, or not a guarantee, but a really safe bet that everything has been taken off of that outgoing employee. So they don’t have any access to everything. It’s not going through all the programs. It’s literally just going through single sign-on and removing them from all those

David Kakish

Applications. Yeah, exactly. Here, I’ll make it simple for you. Scenario A is what an RIA, like yours doesn’t have single sign-on scenario B is an RIA. Like me. We have single sign on for the web-based applications, Todd, and your scenario A where your RIA does not have single sign on for web-based applications. What’s going to happen is you’ve got somebody on your team that has a spreadsheet. What does Todd have access to? Salesforce? e-money, Wealthbox, Orion has to go through FedEx, maybe, I don’t know. And so when they let go of Todd or Todd leaves, it’s a manual process. Let me go in, let me disable them accessing their computer, their iPhone, this application, that application, this and that. In our case with web based single sign on, we disabled their main account. They’re not able to access their computer, they’re not able to access their email on their iPhone or anything. They’re not able to access any of these web-based applications, Wealthbox, Redtail, Orion, and things like that. So you are absolutely right.

Todd W. Darroca

Nice. So let’s get back into again some more solutions that you gave to Mary or brought to the table for her. And one of the things that she wasn’t doing well and not for her own, not to blame her, but the Microsoft license is pretty complex. Big mess going on there. What’d you guys do there?

David Kakish

Yeah, it was overwhelming. And I guess for us, we just managed that for our clients. For us, it’s just part of what we do. And the funny part is we love doing that for our clients to clean it up, because I don’t think Microsoft needs more of our money or your money. I think Microsoft’s got plenty. Their profit margins are very high. So we’re trying to make sure that, and this, I’m telling you, this is so common when you look at the Microsoft licensing, right? You’re like, oh, crap, we’ve been paying this thing for three years and we haven’t used this, and it’s throwing money out the window, flushing

Todd W. Darroca

All the features that you could use and the products. And within that licensing.

David Kakish

Yeah. Well, it’s not just that, but it’s, it’s like, oh, they have this license for this and this and that, and they’re not using it. Or somebody worked there for three years and they’re still paying for ’em and stuff like that, and it kind of gets complicated. Yeah, that’s kind of what happened

Todd W. Darroca

When you went to Mary and said, Hey, look, you’re not even using these things or you’re not taking advantage of this on your license. What was her reaction? Did she kind of get that or was she like, oh, crap.

David Kakish

So I’m not on those calls once the onboarding is done where there’s our onboarding team and they work with her, but I can only imagine what it’s like to be fair, there’s parts, they’re embarrassed a little bit because it’s like, oh man, we’ve been paying this for so long, and then they’re pissed off and annoyed that they’re old or even more, and we’re not trying to put salt on a wound. We’re trying to basically say, Hey, look, later is better than never is all these things.

Todd W. Darroca

I think the other thing that I want to touch on here is you take away this not only the technical tactical side of things for her, but you’re also looking to the future and making sure that she’s staying up to date. So what did you guys do there to I guess, get her ready for the future or be prepared for anything if it changes?

David Kakish

So built into our model, so after we worked together, usually 90 days at the 90 day mark or so, we’re going to do what’s called a strategic technology review. And that’s a way for us to provide you with proactive advice. And then depending on your size as an RIA, we’re going to do one to two times per year where we have that strategic technology review. So in addition to getting a monthly executive summary report and some of the other stuff, we actually want to sit down with you, let’s just say twice a year where we say, Hey, Todd, let’s look at all of your IT infrastructure, cybersecurity IT compliance and things like that, and put that in a red light, green light orange light category at a really high level. It’s not meant to be a highly technical discussion. It’s meant to be a business technology discussion.

And then we just take everything that you have and everything we’re doing. We say, okay, is this green? Is this orange, is this red? And then that also gives us the opportunity to talk about what’s going on in the industry or what’s coming. So that’s something by default that we’re doing with our clients twice a year. And there are other things like that that we do. I don’t want to bore people to death, but we do the backup and disaster recovery. We do a fire drill twice a year, can we recover the backup and then, hey, here’s the fire drill, and then we share the reports and the data with our clients. We just do these things by default because we want to make sure we have that. So yeah, it’s just a great way to do that. One of the big things right now we’re talking with a lot of our clients about mentioned that to you in the past is, Hey, you don’t have data loss prevention for your email.

What I mean by that is if your employee sends out an email with a social security number, account number, passport number or so on, we want to make sure that either that’s prevented from going out or that it’s encrypted and that we automate that whole process. So these are the kind of things we talk about, but it’s literally, it’s a one hour session where the technical account manager will sit typically with the CCO Chief Compliance officer or anybody else on the team and say, Hey, here’s a review of your entire environment in green, in red, and then here’s coming up. And then just kind of have that strategic technology discussion. We don’t think it’s rocket science. We like having it, our clients having it, but I’m just amazed at how many other people don’t have that.

Todd W. Darroca

Right. And how do you keep your team internally, let’s say there could be feedback for the team that Mary was like, Hey, this isn’t going as well. Is there that constant communication and evaluation that you do to make sure, and obviously you probably do, but that Mary can at least give feedback and make those adjustments, and you guys internally can make those adjustments?

David Kakish

Of course. Yeah. So again, the assigned team we absolutely love, we are 20 people, but each client basically gets assigned three team members. We absolutely love this for our clients, and then we absolutely love it for our team. There’s just a sense of ownership, there’s a sense of community camaraderie. It’s kind of weird because we’re technically a vendor, but we don’t like to use the word vendor. We’re more of a partner and you start working, they’re like, wow, okay. And it’s almost like an extension of your employees. It’s pretty cool, and we love it. I don’t know why other people don’t do that, but hey, I guess that’s why we’re here and that’s why people do business with us

Todd W. Darroca

Right.

David Kakish

Now. You asked really. And that right there is the core piece. But again, we’re human. We make mistakes. What we have is we call it a smile back report, but basically it’s a customer satisfaction report. So at the end of every request we complete you and your employees, you can rate a green, yellow, or red at the end of every, and it’s easy. It’s just a little emoji. And so all of our clients are able to rate us, and we do really well. Our CSAT score tends to be like 98% plus, but in the event that we get a yellow or a red and it happens and it’s okay, our service manager is going to get on the phone and say, Hey, Todd, I noticed you gave me a yellow or red. You gave a team member a yellow red. We’re very sorry about that. Is there something that we can do to fix this? And then how can we prevent that in the future?

Todd W. Darroca

And your team actually looks at these things in these bigger companies, they probably like, oh, okay, there it was. But it sounds like you’ve got that, again, partnership feel and a relationship family kind of based internal team that does look at those surveys. It sounds like they do follow up. If something kind goes haywire there,

David Kakish

We obsess over that. That’s a great, that’s great. I didn’t even think about that. Other companies have it, but it is like, yeah, whatever. So we actually look at that every single day, every week, every month, every quarter, and every year. I can tell you our team, when we get a yellow or red, our team knows it and they’re like, oh my goodness, I got a yellow, I got a red. And that’s exactly what we want, right? Again, mistakes happen. It’s just that when it does happen, how can we catch it? How can we take care of it? And Todd, you’re going to laugh. Sometimes it’ll give us a yellow or a red because the internet south because of their internet service provider.

Todd W. Darroca

Oh, gosh.

David Kakish

And then they’ll reply like, oh, I’m so sorry. I did not mean to give you a red, but that’s the type of relationship that it is. And you get a sense of that, and that’s what a lot of RIAs want. I’m like, look, listen, I want my stuff to work, but when it doesn’t work, I want fast response and I want to work with somebody that I know. I don’t want to be calling 1-800-MICROSOFT or one 800, whatever. Yeah. And just to share this specific client, I’m looking at her report right now. She gave us a total of 39, so far, 39 reviews, I think for what in the last six months or year? In the last year, the team gave us 39 reviews. 39 are green, zero is yellow, at zero is red. And here’s what’s amazing. The response rate is 72%, so out of every two,

Todd W. Darroca

Wow, their response seven, that’s high if anybody’s like, well, 72 is a C. No, that’s high, folks. That is, yeah, exactly.

David Kakish

Well, I was showing this to a prospect once, and they saw that our response rate was like 33.3% across the board. And he goes, hang on, is that real or is that made up? Because he knows these smile back reports. Typically in other industries, it’s like less than 1%. And so actually to be fair, our average response time on those is one third. So about 33%, which is really, really, really high because industry average is more like one to 2%. But also we’re different because the clients we work with, I mean, we work with them on a regular basis, they know each other. But anyways, I digress. I talk about this stuff forever and here, here’s the piece of business advice. We rolled this out a really long time ago, and it’s three little emojis. It’s a green, a yellow, and a red. And when we rolled it out, I’m not a big emoji guy. I’m like, whatever. Let’s see what happens.

Todd W. Darroca

And you don’t send kissy face emojis or winks and all that stuff, David. Yeah, yeah,

David Kakish

Yeah. I feel like my seventh grade daughter sending out emojis. But it’s been phenomenal for our business because it’s a quick way for people to quickly rate you. And if you have way Todd and the listeners for you to implement something like that with three little green, a yellow, and a red, it’s amazing. And you track it and you do something about it, right? That’s the key. It’s amazing what it will do for your business. We let, again, we’re human. We’re not perfect, but we don’t let things fester, something happens, catch it, take care of it, and just don’t let things fester. And yeah, it’s had a really, really, these three little emojis, I can’t remember when we rolled it out, must have been like it’s been over 10 years ago. It’s had a really phenomenal impact on our business. It’s fantastic.

Todd W. Darroca

Nice. So at the top of the show, we tease that we have the secrets, the two things that you need to do before you enter into Mary’s world and avoid poor Mary what she did. So David, can you tell us the two most important questions that could have saved Mary from this and that current RAs should be asking

David Kakish

Before they Yeah, if you’re looking to work with a new IT provider, there’s a lot of really good questions that you’re going to ask. But the two top questions that you want to ask, and this will make the biggest impact, is, number one, do you have experience working with other RIAs? And here’s a typical response. No, but we work a lot with hipaa. No, but we work a lot with banks. No, but we work a lot with you fill in the blank. They’re like, it’s totally different, right? It’s totally, totally different.

Todd W. Darroca

So if they say no, it’s a quick, okay, thanks so much. Hang up.

David Kakish

I wouldn’t even waste time. Yeah, I wouldn’t. Because again, the challenges here are so unique. You’re small in terms of a headcount, but you require enterprise security and IT compliance and stuff like that. But yeah, that’s what I would do. I’d be polite about it. Yeah. Hey, thanks, bye. So that’s the first question to ask. The second one, which is also really important is, Hey, who makes up the team that’s going to be supporting us or supporting our RIA? So everybody we have on our team is an employee. We don’t subcontract with third parties or anything like that. And it’s really interesting, I was talking to potential new client last week, and they’re just really frustrated because they work with an IT provider where the help desk is clearly outsourced and there’s just a huge disconnect, right? Well, and stuff like that. So it is not uncommon for IT providers to pull in a bunch of companies together and then they have a help desk, whether it’s US-based or not, or whatever is kind of irrelevant. But I think you ask and to say, Hey, who makes up the team that’s going to be supporting us? Are they all employees? Are they contractors? What does that look like? And you’d be shocked by just asking that question because you’re making an assumption and it’s fascinating. And obviously there’s other great questions to ask. But these two I think are key questions because it’ll give you really a lot of insight into that business.

Todd W. Darroca

Right. Alright, well we covered a lot today, big case study with Mary. And so David, give us the quick highlights again of what we should be taken away from Mary’s story. Top three things.

David Kakish

Yeah, I think, listen, if you’re spending a lot of time on it and technology and it’s a headache and it’s draining you, not energizing you, it’s probably time to make a change. Especially if the provider you’re working with does not work with other RIAs and whether you reach out to us or somebody else, the two questions is, Hey, do you work with other RIAs? If so, are they similar to us in size? And then question number two, who makes up the team that’s going to be supporting us? Do we get an assigned team? Are they employees? And so on. And so those are probably the two most important questions to ask.

Todd W. Darroca

Got it. Do you still keep in touch with Mary?

David Kakish

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. I do. So the way we’re structured is I don’t talk to her that often because we’ve got a system in place, so there’s a primary support here, but then there’s a technical account manager, so he kind of does that. So I usually reach out to her twice a year. Oh, nice. I like her. And we usually get the feedback. So once a year we also like to get overall feedback and her insights and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean listen, I’ve got, here’s the deal, a lot of respect for her, but I’ve got testimonials like, oh my goodness, David, this is night and day where we were and where we’re at, and here’s what I appreciate. And I also reach out to her to say, Hey, we’re working on rolling out these things in the future. Would these be helpful for your business or not? So that’s the kind of relationship I have. I don’t talk to her a lot, but I do definitely connect with her twice a year at a very strategic level.

Todd W. Darroca

Great. Alright folks, well thanks again for joining us. A good meaty topic of our case study today here on Turning It Frustrations to Freedom. So again, there are several different resources that we’re going to put in the description, in the notes, so make sure you download those. Also, we’ll have it on the website. And so again, go to our resources and also you can see the more podcasts that we’ve done in the past@riaworkspace.com and check out the Learning Center. That’s where you’ll see the transcript and all the other goodies from this episode. And so also we want you to again, feel free to reach out to us with any questions or topics you’d like us to cover. As David said, we do read emails and so he does surveys. We do see these things. So please send us those in there. And again, we want to say thanks again for listening to the RA Tech Talk podcast, brought to you by RIA Workspace. And so we’ll hopefully see you next time here in the next episode for more RIA Tech Insights and we’ll see you later. Thanks everybody.

David Kakish

Thank you.